2017 AUGUST Theme: PERSPECTIVE

Sketch – Practice – Inspire - Create. New themes every month.
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6feetunder
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Re: 2017 AUGUST Theme: PERSPECTIVE

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Postby 6feetunder » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:43 pm

Got it.
Give me a half hour and I'll post a reply with some grid lines to help clarify how the perspective works....
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6feetunder
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Re: 2017 AUGUST Theme: PERSPECTIVE

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Postby 6feetunder » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:10 pm

Below are three images showing how the 2 point perspective lines up.
1. red lines lead to V.P. 1. (V.P. = vanishing point)
2. green lines lead to V.P. 2
3. image 1 and 2 combined.

Perspective works great when the world is built on a grid. Barns however can get wonky over time. And farmers don't always lay their hay bales perfectly parallel to the walls. Regardless, your image's lines are fairly 'well behaved' and I do see how they could all be perceived to meet up at those two vanishing points.

Now, how to make the hay stack high on the left! Hang tight and I'll take another half hour to do a quick mock-up...
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6feetunder
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Re: 2017 AUGUST Theme: PERSPECTIVE

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Postby 6feetunder » Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:13 pm

Happy Groundhogs Day!
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6feetunder
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Re: 2017 AUGUST Theme: PERSPECTIVE

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Postby 6feetunder » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:00 pm

Top sketch is from your reference.
Bottom sketch is how it would look with your high extra stacks of bales on the left.

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GwenBriar
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Re: 2017 AUGUST Theme: PERSPECTIVE

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Postby GwenBriar » Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:09 pm

I couldn't possibly improve on that! But what I really wanted was to create my own drawing, from a different perspective, of something similar to this. This photo was just one of several I used to try to understand the perspective. I still can't figure out how to create perspective lines that give me what I want to achieve, and I'm not skilled enough to make the sketch and then draw in the lines later. Specifically, can you tell me how to make the back corner of the building in my drawing farther back? And how to create a flat ceiling over it? The large box can be made smaller if necessary.

The main problem I am having is that the boxes and the building seem to have different perspectives even though the lines go to the same vanishing points. Is that always so? Or is it just a coincidence? I want to make the building bigger, but I just can't see how.
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6feetunder
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Re: 2017 AUGUST Theme: PERSPECTIVE

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Postby 6feetunder » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:55 pm

Perhaps you're trying to run before learning to walk?
If you're finding that barn interior too complicated as it is, I wouldn't recommend distorting it into a view that you have no reference for. Consider taking a step back and trying some hay bales on their own. 2 point perspective. That might be a better place to start.

That said, I'll have a go at your questions....

"...I still can't figure out how to create perspective lines that give me what I want to achieve..."
TWO POINT PERSPECTIVE
1. Draw a horizontal horizon line.
2. Add two vanishing points on either end.
3. Draw a stack of hay bales in between them. All vertical lines will be perfectly vertical. The left facing plane will have all receding lines converge to the vanishing point on the left. The right facing plane will have all receding lines converge to the vanishing point on the right.

"...I'm not skilled enough to make the sketch and then draw in the lines later..."
Not a good way to tackle a perspective drawing. Definitely plot in your horizon and vanishing points, then do your drawing using those key points.

"...can you tell me how to make the back corner of the building in my drawing farther back?..."
The back corner of your building is defined by that one vertical line where the left and right facing planes meet. To make that corner further back is simpler than you think. It's as easy as making that vertical line shorter, then drawing the receding lines to the same vanishing points. Study the drawing I did. You'll get it.

"...And how to create a flat ceiling over it?..."
Again, not as hard as you're thinking it is. Consider a box, or in our case, a hay bale. Look at the hay bales in my sketch. Imagine that each haybale is a barn with a flat roof. Can you see it Gwen? If you can, then look again at my barn sketch and ignore the slanted roof. Pretend I didn't draw any roof lines. That would leave you with a flat plane atop the four walls. If I shaded it with a flat series of markings, it could easily look like a flat roof.

"...The main problem I am having is that the boxes and the building seem to have different perspectives even though the lines go to the same vanishing points..."
If the lines go to the same vanishing points, then they share the same perspective. Nothing different about it. Again though, as I said earlier, I too noticed that the lines don't aline perfectly. If the farmer stacked the hay bales at anything other than a right angle to the barn walls, then the vanishing points of those hay bales would differ from the vanishing points of the walls. But what still holds true is this... both the hay bale vanishing points and the wall vanish points will always be found on the horizon line.

"...I want to make the building bigger, but I just can't see how..."
A trick to make something appear bigger is to lower the horizon line. Another term often used instead of the 'horizon line' is 'the line of vision'. This 'line of vision' refers to your eyeballs always being in line with the horizon. If you are sitting at your computer right now, and gazing with xray vision through walls off to the horizon, your eyes would be in line with the horizon. So a drawing done from a sitting perspective would have a lower horizon line than a drawing done from a standing perspective. If you were on a five story balcony, gazing off to the horizon, your eyes (line of vision) would still be aligned with the horizon. That would make for a very high up perspective drawing where you'd be able to see the roof tops of all buildings up to 4 stories.

But what you're after, making the barn appear bigger, is the opposite of what I just described. Picture the view of the barn from a mouse's perspective. If you were a mouse, your line of vision would be very low, which would also mean that the horizon line would be really low. That would make for a really fun drawing as the barn would appear like a cathedral! If you don't want to be a mouse and choose to remain GwenBriar, then simply raise the roof! Make that far off vertical line a whole lot taller. Keep the base of it the same, just extend the height of the line. Picture the barn as a cathedral. Can you see it Gwen? Tell me you see it! :huh:
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6feetunder
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Re: 2017 AUGUST Theme: PERSPECTIVE

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Postby 6feetunder » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:12 pm

Last thing...
I think I see what is confusing you about the barn's sloped roof. You are right in that those sloped roof lines are definitely misbehaving and not conforming to our simplistic 2 point perspective. The sloped roof lines do not meet up with either of our vanishing points. And nor should they. Again, perspective works great when the world is a grid. Add sloped lines and the misbehaving begins.

What holds true is that all of the receding lines in the barns walls and floor, as well as all of the receding lines in the hay bales will nicely converge at our 2 vanishing points. The roof, neither being parallel to the ground nor perpendicular to the ground is allowed to misbehave.
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GwenBriar
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Re: 2017 AUGUST Theme: PERSPECTIVE

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Postby GwenBriar » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:37 pm

Thank you so much 6 for taking the time to help me! I do see what you are saying, and I don't know why I couldn't see it for myself. I think you are right about me trying to run before I learn to walk, though I wasn't even thinking of trying a sloping roof. :) I am re-energized to try again with something simpler than what I first envisioned. Besides you did such a wonderful job with the barn and hay that I couldn't possibly improve on it.

Thank you for explaining the horizon line so clearly. I was wondering if it was defined by the vanishing points, but I see now how they are interconnected.
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6feetunder
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Re: 2017 AUGUST Theme: PERSPECTIVE

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Postby 6feetunder » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:14 am

Glad to hear it Gwen. Good luck with your sketch. :cheers:
I'm aiming to sketch up one soon as well.
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Foxandmoon
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Re: 2017 AUGUST Theme: PERSPECTIVE

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Postby Foxandmoon » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:49 pm

Gwen, Try to think of everything as a box. The inside of the barn is a box you reside in. The roof is also a box. The hay bails are boxes.

You can even do irregular shapes just put them in a box! Even the clouds can be put in a box!

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